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PingCode徐子岩:研发效能的核心关键点丨Qcon

2021-06-17 20:28:14 InfoQ

{"type":"doc","content":[{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"目前,互联网行业内的类996情况是极为普遍的,为了提高业务产能,加人加班的方式真的可以有效解决公司的研发效能问题吗?"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"研发效能,并不是指一个单位组织的整体产出量,而是指单位时间的产出量。由此可见,简单的加人加班可能并不能解决产能问题,增加更多的沟通成本和管理成本,还可能会适得其反。如何正确的理解研发效能,如何制定符合自己公司的研发效能提升方案,这是每家公司必须要思考和实践的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"InfoQ 记者有幸在"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/qcon.infoq.cn\/2021\/beijing\/","title":null,"type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"QCon 2021 全球软件开发大会"}]},{"type":"text","text":"上,采访到了PingCode基础平台部负责人徐子岩老师,由他亲自为我们讲解提升研发效能的核心关键点,以及如何合理制定方案。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"以下是视频采访内容,为方便读者查看,视频下方也附上了文字内容。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"embedcomp","attrs":{"type":"video","data":{"id":"385530","name":"徐子岩.mp4","poster":"https:\/\/static001.infoq.cn\/resource\/image\/de\/cb\/de97532156813cb437f71d6e1d7084cb.png","url":"https:\/\/media001.geekbang.org\/ddf0c82cd5a84629aea8e507b75451de\/e329a5d29dfe4eddb9def42a869232a7-92d10b0c4f2540d194b7e9ce57e2240b-sd.m3u8"}}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ:"},{"type":"text","text":"徐老师您好,欢迎您参加这次QCon大会进行分享。您先做个自我介绍吧,让大家先熟悉一下您。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"徐子岩:"},{"type":"text","text":"好的,各位观众、听众,我叫徐子岩,是PingCode基础平台部总监,也是目前活跃在开发一线,每天都写代码的程序员。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ:"},{"type":"text","text":"我们发现现在很多公司,他们为了能够直接提高业务产出,通常方式是比较简单粗暴一些的,比如说增加人手,或者是加班这种情况,但是这其实并不能够直接的解决一些问题,在这个情况下,研发效能这个词就出现了,大家开始比较重视这个东西,从您的角度来看,怎么来理解研发效能这个东西呢?它有哪些关键点。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"徐子岩:"},{"type":"text","text":"实际上你刚才提的这个东西,很多公司都是采用增加人手或者是增加时间这种方式,我觉得它能提高的是我们的总产出量,但实际上提高不了单位时间的产出量。"},{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"研发效能是指单位时间产出量"},{"type":"text","text":",有的时候我们提高了人手以后,相对来讲,我们的单位时间的产出量反而降低了,为什么呢?因为你有沟通成本、学习成本,最主要的是这块。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"那对于研发效能来讲,实际上我感觉它是有一些相关指标的,比如说我的产品的上线前置时间,类似于我的缺陷生存周期,包括我的部署成功率,包括我流水线执行次数,这些都是业内通常用到的研发效能指标。但是我一直理解的就是说,各个团队他的研发效能指标,应该是不一样的,你不应该用统一的指标去衡量每一家公司,公司应该找到你自己合适的指标,刚才那些指标,应该都是一个参考的量。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ:"},{"type":"text","text":"很多可能看到比较优秀的研发效能提升的方案,直接应用到本公司之后,发现其实没有很好的提高他们的研发效能,反而会出现一些水土不服的现象,让整个研发效能反而降低了,或者员工的积极度也降低了,那对于这种情况,您觉得问题出现在哪里呢?有没有比较好的建议和方法。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"徐子岩:"},{"type":"text","text":"我觉得最大的问题,就是在于刚才提到的,公司是不一样的,甚至于每家公司的每一个团队都是不一样的。那我们现在无论是在做研发效能的改进,还是"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/xie.infoq.cn\/article\/e7fcefbc1a0725ebf2b8a99dc","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"研发管理的改进"}]},{"type":"text","text":",如果说我去看到某一个管理方式,或者一个效能度量方式不错,我就不加思索的认为应该用它,那多半会出现问题的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第一,没有考虑到你自己的公司,在研发效能当中到底出了什么问题?第二点,是必须要基于出现的问题,要考虑怎么样能把它解决掉。在这个基础上,再去了解业内其他的公司,或者是说大家普遍在用的一些方法,有没有可能去解决我的问题。然后在解决适用之后,要逐步的去用,逐步地听研发团队反馈,而不是说这个东西到我这来用,我就一条道要用到黑,他要求怎么样做,我就必须这么样做。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"研发团队对这个东西有意见,发现有问题,我也不要求改进,因为我认为那个就是真理。我觉得如果是这种情况下,那肯定会造成这种研发效能反而降低,甚至于出现更坏的情况,就是团队出现抵制情绪,如果你的团队出现抵制情绪,那你再去推别的效能提升方案,就会非常非常困难。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"所以说我的理解,如果一家企业想要去做管理跟效能的提升,第一点,一定要明确你自己出了什么问题,第二点怎么样去解决它。然后逐步的去应用到你的团队当中去,而且不断的需要收集团队的反馈。基于你的反馈改变你的方案,不是别人讲的都是对的,改变以后真正适合你自己公司的,才是最对的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ:"},{"type":"text","text":"就像您刚刚说的,每个部门之间,他们可能评价自己研发效能指标是不一样的,在我看来,会出现一种类似于“竖井”的情况。我自己理解,“竖井”似乎不是一个完全负面的东西,只是需要从全局和局部的角度去平衡与度量它的效率和利益,是不是这样的呢?你是如何看待这个现象的呢?"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"徐子岩:"},{"type":"text","text":"这种情况下,在有一些公司我遇到过,实际上就是说某一些部门,或者某一些团队,他自己的工作效率很高,工作效果很好。但是呢,它非常排斥其他团队对他的这种东西,希望自己保护起来,不要去碰我。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"我觉得这个是几个方面的问题,首先第一个方面,就是研发效能这件事情,究竟是从哪推起来的。在我的理解,一定要有公司的高层支持,公司高层的支持一定要支持到所有团队。就是说,我作为公司的高层,要求的是全公司,或者整个研发线的效能提升,而不是逐个效能提升。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"“竖井”的情况就是你们的部门效能是提升了,但是在我全局角度上看,你对其他团队是有影响的,从我的角度,你就是没有提升我整个公司的研发效能,那我就是要想办法解决这个问题,这是第一点。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"另外一块,就是跟研发效能相关的,我们怎么去评价一个团队,对公司的价值和贡献度。我们有时候,有一些公司,或者说有一些组织,更倾向于评价你的产出量,你的代码量,甚至于你对公司的业务或者说你挣了多少钱,但是都会或多或少的会忽略一点,就是你在研发团队当中的沟通跟协作,和团队配合,这样的能力,究竟有多强。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"如果你单纯的以那种类KPI的方式去管理研发团队,大部分团队都会遇到这种问题,就是我只为我的目标负责,我搞的好就行,我不要去管别人。但是我觉得,至少对于我们PingCode的研发团队来讲,"},{"type":"link","attrs":{"href":"https:\/\/xie.infoq.cn\/article\/f6f4cd17ae914872e181cf17c","title":"xxx","type":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"我们在自身团队的目标的同时,也关注你对其他团队做了什么"}]},{"type":"text","text":"。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"如果其他团队对你的评价不高,那么你最终的评价也不会很高,那么我们考虑就可能会用这种方式,来去解决你所说的所谓的“竖井”问题,就是说我好,但不是全部都好,我要帮助所有的人,大家一起成长,才有可能去达到我的目标的达成度,我觉得这个可能一部分解决这个问题。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"所以我觉得,您说“竖井”也不完全是一个坏现象,在最开始的初期,我觉得可能是会有某些团队会做的好,但是作为企业来讲,应该时刻的关注警惕这种情况出现,尽量不要让它出现。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ:"},{"type":"text","text":"我们如何去判断企业,它是否有一个良好的研发效能呢,从哪些角度可以判断一下?"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"徐子岩:"},{"type":"text","text":"这个问题说起来是非常难回答的,因为刚才在分享中也有人有提到,我的团队怎么算好,怎么算不好,如果这个问题从根本上回答,是没有这样的标准的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"因为我刚才提到的,你每一个公司都不一样,每个公司各个团队都不一样,对于不一样的团队,你是不可能用统一的标准去衡量这件事情的,所以只能是从自己的公司出发,去衡量你的研发效能,究竟是怎么样的?跨国公司、分布式公司和本地公司是不一样的,那你做产品的公司和做项目的公司又是不一样的,但是通用起来来讲,可能研发度量有这样几个方面,它不是度量的具体的一个内容,可能是一个方向。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"比如说我们可以考虑一下研发团队,在开发当中的流畅度,所谓的流畅度,是从你的需求到编码,从部署到发布,中间有没有特别明显的阻碍感,哪一个环节被阻住了,或者哪一个环节很难推动的起来。那么这个是研发效能就是需要关注的其中一个点。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"另外一个点,就是质量。这一点相信所有公司都关注,但是我在这提出来的是恰到好处的质量,不是质量越高越好,是符合你公司要求的质量就是好的。有的公司可能钻这个牛角尖,尤其是技术公司,它会钻这个牛角尖,我一定要把质量搞的多好,有些实际上你搞到一定程度上是没有意义的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"第三,你一定要持续地做这件事情,我在我的分享环节里不断跟大家重复一段话,一旦你想做某件事情,你一定要持续的去做,而不是说最开始大张旗鼓,然后大家疲态了,最后就放弃了,如果是这样,我宁可不做,因为所有的工作都耗费了。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"所以说,你的研发效能度量,或者是研发效能提升这件事情,一定要持续足够长的时间,公司的高层和管理者,一定要给予切实的支持去做这件事情。然后呢,研发效能度量一定要关注客户的价值。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"研发人员有的时候会太偏研发了,我觉得这个东西很好,很棒,我就是要用,我不用心里就难受。但是研发人员没有错,如果出现这种情况,错的应该是研发的管理者,就是他始终要把控研发团队。你做的所有东西,都是应该给最终用户有客户价值的,没有客户价值的提升,是毫无疑义的,也是浪费的。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"numbe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},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"InfoQ:"},{"type":"text","text":"我们最后一个问题,也是比较大的问题。您觉得在未来,研发效能的提升,还能在哪些方面做一些事情,或者说有一些体现呢?"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","marks":[{"type":"strong"}],"text":"徐子岩:"},{"type":"text","text":"首先来讲,我觉得这两块可以分成相对短期和长期。短期来讲,在近一两年左右,三年以内,刚才提到的,之前做研发效能更多的是希望大家多做事。那么现在实际上在近两年,很多的项目管理公司,他们大部分公司都已经开始意识到这一点,通过自动化的产品去让团队尽量少做某些事情。这个我觉得可能是在近两年之内,会比较重点的一个领域。就是说,通过自动化的方式,让研发团队的人去专注于实现客户要的东西,而不是做那些事务性的工作,这是短期的我的概念。"}]},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null}},{"type":"paragraph","attrs":{"indent":0,"number":0,"align":null,"origin":null},"content":[{"type":"text","text":"中长期的概念,我觉得研发效能的提升,依靠流程、工具,这种层面可能已经达不到了,未来可能需要借助数据、智能和AI的方式,让研发效能的提升不是我们想办法,告诉我们的工具和产品,你怎么提升,是产品反过来,告诉研发团队,你有哪些点能被提升。或者说,你现在的研发效能究竟出了哪些问题,是反向的提示我们,这个可能需要我们所有的研发赛道的企业共同的去探索,在未来有没有可能用这种方式,再为我们研发效能的提升去拉高另一个台阶,我的理解是,它不在一个层次上做这件事情。"}]}]}

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