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Interview with Du Junping: the best open source ecological model is Amazon's virgin forest

2021-01-24 12:28:01 Sifu editorial department

​2020 year 12 month 27 Japan ,「 A source of initial , Open and create together 」 Open atom open source foundation 2020 The annual summit concluded successfully in Beijing . The summit is hosted by the open atom foundation , Alibaba 、 Baidu 、 Huawei 、 Fun chain technology 、SegmentFault Think no 、 China Merchants Bank and other representative units of open source projects and the open source community , It has also been strongly supported by all the governing bodies .

This summit focuses on open source operation governance 、 Open source education and public welfare have carried out theme forum sharing , The first donation project of the open atom open source foundation, the open atom trusted ledger project team, conducted a work report roadshow , The Technical Supervision Committee of the open atom open source foundation is widely concerned by the open source circle ( hereinafter referred to as “TOC”) We also had a special sharing .

In order to further understand the operation idea of the foundation and TOC The role played in the foundation ,SegmentFault The reporter who thinks no to open the atomic Foundation TOC Chairman Duan Junping gave an exclusive interview .


Q1: You think the foundation is very important to the whole open source industry , What are the core values ?

For the open source industry , If enterprises want to break the ice and establish cooperation , In particular, it's very difficult for friends and businessmen who have a competitive relationship .

Open atomic foundation as a neutral, non-profit organization , Not by any company 、 Controlled by an enterprise , So we can put down our guard when we cooperate with each other , It's easy to build trust , We need to work together on technology , Jointly promote the development of open source projects .

To go back to the essence is to say , The existence of the foundation can help us better establish cooperation 、 Building trust .

Q2: In the traditional sense , There is an essential conflict between the business attributes of enterprises and open source . Does the foundation encounter any challenges or difficulties in the process of calling on enterprises to participate in open source ?

I think the operation ideas of enterprises are gradually transforming , The understanding of open source in China's major companies is also in a gradual deepening process .

The first phase of open source , The idea of the enterprise is “ How to make good use of open source ”; The second stage is slowly moving towards contribution and open source , Join in the construction of open source community . And similar to Huawei 、 A company like Ali , Go further on the road of open source , Will use their own platform capabilities , Take the initiative to open up some projects for everyone to use .

I think all technology enterprises may have to go through these three different stages of development in the end . But it doesn't mean that the more advanced the development, the better , Open source requires all kinds of roles to participate in it , In a mature system, there are both consumers and producers , To form a virtuous circle .

And there are many forms of open source , Some foreign companies do not directly open source projects , It's going to cloud open source , And profit from it . Although this is not the traditional concept of open source behavior , There are different opinions on this approach in the open source field , But at least it succeeded in promoting open source projects , It also proves that open source projects have commercial value , Have the ability to industrialize .

Q3: The open atom open source foundation is promoting enterprises to contribute to open source 、 In the process of participating in open source , What are the specific ways and strategies ?

I think the foundation has several important points .

First of all , The foundation is relative to other open source promotion organizations , The essential difference is that you can host projects . The open atom foundation as a non-profit entity , Each enterprise can put the corresponding code 、 Donate to the project foundation . Incubation project is one of the most important functions of the foundation , Still let these contributed projects run in a more open and transparent way , Become a project owned by the whole society .

secondly , There is a whole set of principles and methods in the operation of the foundation . For example, different foundations have different requirements for membership ,Apache The foundation accepts donations from enterprises, but requires developers to contribute to projects in their personal capacity , And like Linux The foundation 、 The open atom open source foundation focuses on projects donated by enterprises , Personal projects as a supplement . Let enterprises make project donation in a way of membership , This will reduce the concerns of enterprises to participate in open source .

These two models have their own advantages and disadvantages , It plays a positive role in promoting open source culture . We need both Apache The pattern of , We also need to open the atomic open source foundation and Linux The foundation model .

Q4:TOC What's your role in the foundation ?

The technical supervision committee is a very important link in the decision-making of the whole foundation . Just now we mentioned that one of the biggest functions of the foundation is to trust projects 、 Incubation projects , Help projects mature . So to measure the quality of a foundation , It depends on whether the items in it are valuable , Whether it can be successful or not .

Of course, this is a more pragmatic view , For example, we think Apache Foundation and Linux Foundations are successful foundations , It's because they breed a lot of successful projects .

But success does not necessarily mean the success of commercialization , But at least let the project have a large user base , Generating value for users , The criteria are unified . Even if the project can't be well commercialized , But it can be accepted and used by a large number of developers , So it's also a very successful open source project .

On this basis ,TOC The biggest function is to help and supervise the donated projects to build a good framework for community governance 、 Develop a set of principles , Let each project follow the reasonable and compliant development process and communication process . This is our response to “ graduation ” The criteria .

secondly , We don't focus too much on the success of commercialization , It focuses on whether the project changes from the state of enterprise self maintenance to the form of community maintenance , No longer affected by the business plan of the donating company . It's a way of being accountable to the user , If a project has a significant impact due to a business change in an enterprise or is not maintained , The loss to users is the biggest .

therefore , We made the rules of lenient entry and strict exit . For projects that want to join the foundation , We all welcome , There won't be too many thresholds . But in “ graduation ” On this matter , We will be demanding , Avoid the risks mentioned above .

Q5: You just mentioned the open source project “ Graduation mechanism ”, In addition to the standard of community operation , What other dimensions are there ?

about “ Graduation mechanism ”, We have a set of “ standard ”. For example, the code itself should comply with certain code standards and review the integration process .

Code quality and code specifications vary from project to project , It's made by the community itself , But there must be a set of norms and follow them . For example, there should be a strict set of commit Mechanism , Ensure that the code is review And then merge it in .

In addition, the community operation standard we mentioned earlier , In addition to community sharing and co building , We also need to make community-based technology decisions in an open and transparent way .

So our graduation mechanism includes code level considerations , It's also about people 、 Organizational structure 、 Comprehensive evaluation of community mechanism and other dimensions .

Q6: In specific projects ,TOC How much participation will be ?

We are TOC There is also a project mentor role under the system , In the specific operation of the project, we take TOC The mechanism of interaction with tutors . Tutors are open to the whole society , We've collected the first batch of 20 Mentor .

Tutor groups and projects are linked by two-way selection , Each project will probably have 3-5 A tutor to coach , Participate in the operation of the project , And give suggestions on project development and community process . At present, there are many mentors who are initiators of mature open source projects and long-term code contributors of major foundations , They all have rich experience in open source community development .

Through this division of roles ,TOC We can manage the top-level technical specifications in the open source field , The tutor will provide landing assistance for specific projects . Of course ,TOC They will also be directly involved in the project when it is needed , I will also join as a volunteer TOC Our team of mentors , Use your own experience to play more functions .

Q7: It was set up not long ago OpenHarmony The project team , Are there any specific development plans at present ?

about Open Harmony This big umbrella project , We hope to let the people in the working group work out the corresponding specific strategies . For example, should this project start from 「 End 」 Go to other areas ? These specific technology evolution directions , I hope it will be decided by the members of the technical committee of the working group .TOC Only responsible for monitoring whether the project is developing towards meeting the hatching graduation standards .

Besides , Because this project has a certain degree of maturity , In the future, we will pay more attention to the actual operation of the project , Including the establishment of community operation standards, etc , Look at the project for the community 、 What kind of value can developers provide , How many active developers and contributors , These will also be the criteria for graduation .

But as for the specific areas of the project in the future , Or what is the direction in various industries , We still want the working group to play its part .TOC It's impossible to cover experts in all fields , Naturally, it is impossible to give advice on professional fields in all projects . such as openHarmony This kind of end-to-end large-scale operating system , Need industry experts 、 technician 、 Executive experts 、 Operation experts and so on , Together they form a decision-making body , To drive the project to real success .

Q8: We can see that there are some projects in the foundation that intersect at the business level , Is there an internal competitive relationship in the foundation ?

The open source world encourages competition , Only competition can give developers more choices . Encourage competition , It's one of our basic principles .

For example, we have a good wheel , So welcome to join , Make the wheels better ; But if some people or teams feel that the wheel is not good enough , To reinvent a wheel is also OK.

second , On the basis of competition, we hope to promote cooperation . If two projects “apple to apple” There's not much difference , We encourage cooperation and integration in some way , So as to achieve 1+1 Greater than 2 The effect of .

We don't want the foundation's projects to be monopolized by one company , In the open source world , Monopoly means closeness and backwardness . We want to have multiple voices 、 Diversified and distributed decision-making mechanism . After this decision-making mechanism is established , Only in this way can competitive manufacturers be better integrated .

Q9: You think the future technology development will be a head enterprise in each vertical field , Or will there be a large ecosystem covering the whole industry ?

I think the possibility of large-scale ecosystem will be greater .

If we open the whole open source technology stack , You'll find it's very rich . I've done it before 10 Big data in 2000 , I can see that in addition to the resource scheduling system and the underlying HDFS It didn't change much , The upper execution engine framework 、SQL The engine is constantly changing . A large company 、 A small company 、 New companies are constantly adding to open source , I think this is an ecology .

We can think of open source as a virgin forest of Amazon . The virgin forest in Amazon is developing so well , It's because it flourishes 、 There is life , In fact, the same is true of open source .

Open source needs big trees and rivers , We also need all kinds of small trees 、 The mushroom 、 Colonies and so on , They exist together , To form a symbiotic relationship . I think the advantage of open source is that you can grow in a barbaric way 、 In an environment full of possibilities . If we insist on turning the open source industry into a royal garden , This kind of vitality may also be lost .

Of course , I very much hope that more domestic enterprises can grow into towering trees in the jungle , With their more abundant resources 、 Technology reserve and talent reserve to build open source . And from the perspective of the open source foundation , We will also pay special attention to start-up The innovation of the company , Give them support .

Only in this way can the ecology be more complete 、 More healthy , Let everyone benefit from it .

Q10: You think some enterprises are not willing to invest more energy in open source , Besides the consideration of commercialization, what other factors ?

It may have something to do with the early leadership of these enterprises .

Many domestic Internet companies are based on LAMP(Linux, Apache etc. ) These are free open source projects , But they don't have a sense of open source . First of all, we didn't actively give back to the community through open source , The second is not really aware of the value of open source , I didn't think about the secret of success after the enterprise became bigger .

I think the global high-tech industry , They all grow up with the dividend of open source . Europe and the United States may wake up earlier in this regard , And in China, we still need to continue to explore 、 To think about . This is also the open atom open source foundation and SegmentFault Do you want to preach the spirit of open source 、 Explore the practical significance of commercial open source value .

Q11: Do you have any plans for the main project direction of the open atom foundation in the next stage ? For example, which field of open source project is the main concern ?

From the foundation's current projects, we can see that ,IoT OS It involves a lot of fields . Planning for the future of the project , We start from the whole TOC There has been a discussion from the perspective of .

First of all, we hope to see that the existing foundations have their own characteristics , such as Apache The soul of the foundation is in the field of big data , Most open source big data projects and middleware projects are hosted in Apache The foundation .Linux The foundation is more bottom-up ,CNCF For cloud natives and containers ,LF AI Foundations focus on AI field . We expect the open atom open source foundation to be open to all fields , It's very open .

meanwhile , We will also pay more attention to the hot areas of the industry , For example, there are many projects at present IoT OS. In the global map of foundations , No foundation is focused on this area right now , So this part of the project we will focus on . In addition, open source projects may develop rapidly in some areas in the future , such as AI、AR/VR wait , We will continue to focus on .

But the overall plan for the next step , Or we should combine the actual situation of the enterprise , Including the contrast of industrial power . Here's a message , The open atom open source foundation has plans to comb the map of hot open source projects based on China and facing the world . When you recognize it , We will see which projects have the potential for rapid growth , Also will take the initiative to attract some potential projects to come in . In this way, the foundation and TOC To help the project grow better .


At the end of the interview , Duan Junping shared with reporters TOC Short term and long term goals . The short-term goal will continue to focus on project incubation and high potential project mining . And from TOC In terms of personnel composition , Many of them are open source “ Old gun son ”, Carrying the idea of spreading open source 、 The responsibility of inheriting open source culture , It will be TOC One of the long-term goals .

Open source is changing the world , Open source software 、 Open source hardware 、 Open source content plays an increasingly important role in all walks of life , The open source mode is changing the production mode of various industries and greatly improving the production efficiency , But the development of open source still needs the active participation of people from all walks of life .

The mission of the open atom open source foundation is “ All for the developers , All for the world ”. With the development , The open atom open source foundation has demonstrated its ability and value . With 「 Open source 」 Open atom open source foundation as a link 2020 The annual summit , It is in the form of a meeting that we hope to adopt , Call on people from all walks of life to promote China's open source cause , The foundation is willing to continue to build an open source ecosystem , Help you build 、 Co governance 、 share .

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